Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Post & comment on beer, cider & mead recipes

Moderator: rsc3da

Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby turkeyjerky214 » Mon May 13, 2013 9:22 am

I'm planning to brew this on Wednesday or Thursday, and it's my first Märzen. I really don't know a whole lot about the style, so this recipe is pretty much cobbled together from looking at a ton of recipes online, reading about the style in Designing Great Beers, and of course my own personal tastes.

I'm planning to do a single decoction to go from my mash temp to mash out. Thinking about using Tettnanger instead of Hallertauer.

As of right now, the only thing I do to treat my water is just add 5.2. Is there anything I should do to my water (Brentwood) to really make this style shine?

As always, any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

2013 Oktoberfest
3-B Oktoberfest/Märzen

Image

Size: 11.0 gal @ 68 °F
Efficiency: 78%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 188.08 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.056 (1.050 - 1.057)
|======================#=========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.014 (1.012 - 1.016)
|================#===============|
Color: 12.34 (7.0 - 14.0)
|====================#===========|
Alcohol: 5.56% (4.8% - 5.7%)
|=====================#==========|
Bitterness: 26.6 (20.0 - 28.0)
|=====================#==========|

Ingredients:
10 lb (44.0%) Pilsen Malt - added during mash
3 lb (13.2%) Vienna Malt - added during mash
2 lb (8.8%) German Light Munich - added during mash
6.75 lb (29.7%) German Dark Munich - added during mash
1 lb (4.4%) Caramel Munich 60 Malt - added during mash
2.0 oz (44.4%) Hallertauer Mittelfrüher (4.7%) - added during boil, boiled 60 m
0.5 oz (11.1%) Hallertauer Mittelfrüher (4.7%) - added during boil, boiled 30 m
2.0 oz (44.4%) Hallertauer Mittelfrüher (4.7%) - added during boil, boiled 15 m

Mash temp: 152º
-Brian

On Tap: Sour Belgian Brown, Amber Ale, Milk Stout, English Dark Mild, American Brown, Vienna Lager

Fermenting: Roggenbier, Pumpkin Ale
Kegged: Dunkelweizen, Hefeweizen, Barleywine
Lagering: Märzen, Doppelbock, Düsseldorf Alt
User avatar
turkeyjerky214
 
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:18 am
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby l1chris » Mon May 13, 2013 9:28 pm

Oktoberfest is my favorite style, so i brew it at least once, sometimes twice a year. I really like your mash bill. I used to do a double decoction mash with 2lbs of Caramunich 60L. This seemed to be too malty and ended up too sweet. So now, i love my oktoberfest (just kegged it a couple weeks ago) and i lower the mash temp to about 150F to get it a bit drier, use 1lb of Caramunich 60L, and dont do a decoction mash anymore. I have better control over my mash by skipping the decoction. That used to always trip me up. I use Hallertau pellets at 60 and 20 minutes, and tett will be great too. I dont really do much to my water except adjust ph with phos acid and add campden tablets for chloromines which i do on every beer. Im interested to hear how others adjust water for this beer.

The most important factor in making a stellar, malty, delicious Oktoberfest, in my opinion is yeast. Ive been on a kick of using (and reusing) white labs wlp833 bock lager yeast. It will chew threw some german lagers and leave that clean lager character that you want. I usually start that yeast off with a helles, or like this year a schwarzbier and then pitch into an oktoberfest. Either way, make sure you have plenty of healthy yeast to pitch. I have always heard to stay away from the white labs "Oktoberfest Lager" strain because its such a bad diacetyl producer. Speaking of which, give it a nice long week or 2 d rest too. I try to ferment on the cool side, usually 48ish. As soon as i see the yeast slowing down a bit, i raise it up to d rest temp (basement temp) and let it finish up those last couple gravity points and eat up the diacetyl. Lager for 5 months and enjoy! And dont forget to bring the brewmeister a sample when its done!
l1chris
 
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 3:11 pm
Location: Waterloo IL

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby turkeyjerky214 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:07 am

Thanks, Chris. Since I'm not going to be stepping up the mash temps with decoctions, I'm not too worried. Just going to go from 152º up to around 168º after conversion is complete.

I used the Ayinger strain when I did my run of lagers last year and really liked it, but when I had to order from Kent, it was a Wyeast month and they only have it as a seasonal strain. So I ended up going with Wy2308 (WLP838). I did a batch of a Helles to build it up enough for this, and then I'm planning on using the yeast from this batch on a doppelbock. For this strain, 48º is the bottom end, so I was planning on fermenting at 50º.

As far as the campden tablets, I filter all my water which I'm told eliminates chorine and chloramine. Would I still see a benefit from the use of campden tablets?

Anyone else care to weigh in?
-Brian

On Tap: Sour Belgian Brown, Amber Ale, Milk Stout, English Dark Mild, American Brown, Vienna Lager

Fermenting: Roggenbier, Pumpkin Ale
Kegged: Dunkelweizen, Hefeweizen, Barleywine
Lagering: Märzen, Doppelbock, Düsseldorf Alt
User avatar
turkeyjerky214
 
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:18 am
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby l1chris » Tue May 14, 2013 12:27 pm

Yeah I like your decoction steps better than the way i did them. I will probably do this from now on. You still get the same control over the temps during the mash as you normally would and then you still get the benefits from the decoction.

I honestly don't pay much attention to the recommended yeast temps when I brew lagers anymore. I brewed a couple lagers in a row a few years ago and had fermentation temp at 50 and people always commented that they were not as clean as they should be. Dan Stauder (the elder) told me that lowering the temp down to 47 or 48 will do the trick. I think it has helped and I haven't noticed anything wrong with the yeast. So thats what I do now on all my lagers.

The other thing I do now that I learned the hard way is not pitch any yeast until the wort is at my desired fermentation temp. I used to get it as cool as my tap water would get it, oxygenate, and pitch the yeast, and then put in the fridge to pull it down the rest of the way. Well as you can probably guess, the yeast took off a few times before the temp was where I wanted it, resulting in all sorts of "unclean" flavors. Now, I'll wait all night if I have to and then pitch. I know it's a risk doing it that way, but at least I'm sure I won't be fermenting too warm.

VP Joe and I had a conversation about campden tablets last meeting. I said I have always put them in my brew water the night before I brew because the guy I learned from (Dan Frey) did and said that I should. I don't have any chlorine issues in my beer so I still use them- right or wrong. I don't believe they do any harm, but I don't want to chance having some water issues in my finished beer. Either way, it forces me to make up my water the night before and get some other stuff set up so that when I wake up on brew day, I can light the fire and start brewing. So that's a plus for me probably more so than risking any chlorine issues. I think a lot of people don't worry about chlorine.
l1chris
 
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 3:11 pm
Location: Waterloo IL

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby JoeHPhil » Tue May 14, 2013 12:44 pm

Though I do not treat for Chloromines, I am relatively sure they are not removed with a charcoal water filter.
User avatar
JoeHPhil
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:46 pm
Location: Ijamsville, MD

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby stlmalt » Tue May 14, 2013 3:17 pm

<<>>
Last edited by stlmalt on Tue May 14, 2013 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kent
Missouri Malt Supply in Fenton
stlmalt
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:47 am
Location: Fenton, MO | Defiance, MO

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby stlmalt » Tue May 14, 2013 3:36 pm

A water filter using activated carbon is an effective method in removing chloramines in water, provided you filter slowly at the recommended flow rate for removal.

Cheers,

Kent
Kent
Missouri Malt Supply in Fenton
stlmalt
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:47 am
Location: Fenton, MO | Defiance, MO

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby tlael » Tue May 14, 2013 4:44 pm

stlmalt wrote:A water filter using activated carbon is an effective method in removing chloramines in water, provided you filter slowly at the recommended flow rate for removal.

Cheers,

Kent


Kent,
That raises a pretty good question. Do you know the reccommended flow rate for the carbon filters that you sell for the 10" housing? I usually run mine wide open through a 3/8" ball valve when filling my HLT. I wonder if I am getting the full filtering capabilities using 3/8" inlet and outlet, or If I should throttle my valve back a bit?

Thanks!
-Tim Lael

Primary:
Air
Kegged:
Classic American Pils
Dusseldorf Alt
Belgian Dark Strongarm
Donkere Geneeskunde
In The Barrel:
Donkere Geneeskunde
On Deck:
Belgian Blond
User avatar
tlael
 
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Belleville

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby stlmalt » Tue May 14, 2013 5:54 pm

Flow rate of 1.5 gal/min or less for the Pall 10 in. Micro-Carbon II filter.

Cheers,

Kent
Kent
Missouri Malt Supply in Fenton
stlmalt
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:47 am
Location: Fenton, MO | Defiance, MO

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby Lynux » Wed May 15, 2013 2:50 pm

I use city water and add calcium chloride to all my malty beers to balance the sulfate/chloride ppm ratio. City tap water favors bitter beers and is somewhat high in sulfate so this helps considerably. I haven't seen a water report for the county water so this may not be necessary. There are several great water spreadsheets out there if you are interested in building your water profiles. I use a combination of Martin Brungard's Bru'n Water and the EZ Water Spreadsheet available on homebrewtalk.
A good brew will quench the parched soul

P -
C - Lambic
Tap - Red Lager, Black Lager, Patersbier, Cream Ale
Bottle - Barleywine, Mead, Flanders Red, Wit Wine
User avatar
Lynux
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: South St. Louis

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby tlael » Wed May 15, 2013 3:52 pm

Lynux wrote:... city water ...


http://www.stlwater.com/ccr.pdf
Lynux wrote:... county water...

http://www.amwater.com/files/MO_6010716_TWQ.pdf
http://www.amwater.com/ccr/STLSTC.pdf

Now, you have seen! :)
-Tim Lael

Primary:
Air
Kegged:
Classic American Pils
Dusseldorf Alt
Belgian Dark Strongarm
Donkere Geneeskunde
In The Barrel:
Donkere Geneeskunde
On Deck:
Belgian Blond
User avatar
tlael
 
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Belleville

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby Lynux » Thu May 16, 2013 9:49 am

The county report doesn't really give averages, it shows the mineral content from the MO river water and the Meramec river water. I don't quite get that one?

Edit - I should have also added in my original post that our water is a little low in calcium as well so the calcium chloride addition will also help with that. Yeast need calcium for healthy fermentation.
A good brew will quench the parched soul

P -
C - Lambic
Tap - Red Lager, Black Lager, Patersbier, Cream Ale
Bottle - Barleywine, Mead, Flanders Red, Wit Wine
User avatar
Lynux
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: South St. Louis

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby turkeyjerky214 » Thu May 16, 2013 10:53 am

Would it be wise to start adding stuff like campden tablets and calcium chloride without knowing my specific water profile?


Also, any other feedback on the actual recipe?
-Brian

On Tap: Sour Belgian Brown, Amber Ale, Milk Stout, English Dark Mild, American Brown, Vienna Lager

Fermenting: Roggenbier, Pumpkin Ale
Kegged: Dunkelweizen, Hefeweizen, Barleywine
Lagering: Märzen, Doppelbock, Düsseldorf Alt
User avatar
turkeyjerky214
 
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:18 am
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby Lynux » Thu May 16, 2013 1:48 pm

What lovibond is your dark Munich? I don't make this style much but the recipe looks pretty good to me assuming you're not using 20L Munich.
A good brew will quench the parched soul

P -
C - Lambic
Tap - Red Lager, Black Lager, Patersbier, Cream Ale
Bottle - Barleywine, Mead, Flanders Red, Wit Wine
User avatar
Lynux
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: South St. Louis

Re: Märzen/Oktoberfest Feedback

Postby turkeyjerky214 » Thu May 16, 2013 1:53 pm

Lynux wrote:What lovibond is your dark Munich? I don't make this style much but the recipe looks pretty good to me assuming you're not using 20L Munich.


Nope. Right around 10L.
-Brian

On Tap: Sour Belgian Brown, Amber Ale, Milk Stout, English Dark Mild, American Brown, Vienna Lager

Fermenting: Roggenbier, Pumpkin Ale
Kegged: Dunkelweizen, Hefeweizen, Barleywine
Lagering: Märzen, Doppelbock, Düsseldorf Alt
User avatar
turkeyjerky214
 
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:18 am
Location: Westminster, CO

Next

Return to Recipes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests