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Mike C-Z wrote:Just curious if any members that brew sour beer are considering doing a tech topic for the February meeting? Or maybe a Q and A with several brewers.
Tim Fahrner wrote:I don’t personally think professional brewers have much business giving out advice at a homebrewers meeting. Most of their brewing is geared toward big scale brewing and making money -not making the best possible product. The last pro which spoke at a meeting I attended proved this in at least one or more questions that he answered. These guys are focused on making what they can sell, while spending the least amount of money possible (just take a look at the ingredients most of them use). Brewing what conforms to established styles or what is the highest quality is not their priority. Most people I know who homebrew have nearly the opposite goals.
The specific brewers I listed are renowned for their specific sour beer and barrel aging programs, which are definitely not driven by cost-cutting pressures. The resulting "special releases" are accordingly high-priced and have wait-lists and demand-which-exceeds-supply nonetheless. Brewers like that, who are proven experts in such a rare and challenging brewing style, I believe would have lots of valuable insights to share with homebrewers.
Tim Fahrner wrote:...It's possible some good information may be had from the brewers you mention. However, since I haven't sampled the products of which you speak, I'll have to remain skeptical...
As much as I want to resent Perennial for the prices they charge, time and again upon tasting them I'm convinced beers like Abraxus and Sump are worth every penny. No offense, but it's silly to think you could make that beer at 1/100th the cost.
We're moving into an era where the blanket statement "decent homebrew is better than any commercial beer" is no longer patently true.
Tim Fahrner wrote:I will confess I have not extensively sampled local sour commercial offering to the extent you obviously have. I am mostly referring to the other offering that can be found around town. With the exception of the Pils and Helles at Urban Chestnut, I haven't found much that I would rate better than mediocre...
seymour wrote:As much as I want to resent Perennial for the prices they charge, time and again upon tasting them I'm convinced beers like Abraxus and Sump are worth every penny. No offense, but it's silly to think you could make that beer at 1/100th the cost...Tim Fahrner wrote:As for that, I am certain I could make that beer at 1/100th the cost. Think about it- it wouldn't be hard when they are charging something like $30-50 per bottle. A homebrewer can easily make those beers for 30 cents per bottle or less...
Tim Fahrner wrote:...The old Thomas Hardy barley wine...Samiclaus...the old Salvator...Spaten Optimator. Those beers take technical skills that are a HUGE challenge for a homebrewer. If you want to bring in the brewmaster from Spaten to talk to the club, well, I'm all ears...
Will Ferrell wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
Tim Fahrner wrote:As for that, I am certain I could make that beer at 1/100th the cost. Think about it- it wouldn't be hard when they are charging something like $30-50 per bottle. A homebrewer can easily make those beers for 30 cents per bottle or less...
No, you really, really couldn't. I know Perennial is often over-hyped, and not all their ridiculous prices are worth it. But take their Barrel-Aged Sump Coffee Imperial Stout for instance, you couldn't even buy the raw materials. You would need a freshly-emptied Rittenhouse Rye Whiskey barrel, SUMP coffee (the origin blend and method of roasting are trade secrets. Taste it for yourself, there is no substitute), and their proprietary blend of yeast and beneficial bacterium. Not to mention a highly unique grainbill and enough of it to reach 10.5% abv, which you would not be able to reverse engineer without spending lots of money on trial and error. Oh, and you'd have to wait 12 months between attempts to know if you've succeeded. We're not talking about cloning Schlafly Pale Ale here. Wouldn't it be interesting to have that brewer come talk to us?
Tim Fahrner wrote:...The old Thomas Hardy barley wine...Samiclaus...the old Salvator...Spaten Optimator. Those beers take technical skills that are a HUGE challenge for a homebrewer. If you want to bring in the brewmaster from Spaten to talk to the club, well, I'm all ears...
I think we're still talking past each other a bit. I agree with you, those are excellent beers, and extremely difficult to imitate or equal. But this contradicts your original assertion "I don’t personally think professional brewers have much business giving out advice at a homebrewers meeting." Now it sounds like they just need to be the brewers of your personal favourite beers in order to count.
Even so, none of those are sour beers, which shows you've missed my main point. Brewing a good sour beer is unlike brewing other beers in many crucial ways. We were talking about adding value to the next meeting by inviting expert sour brewers because past StlBrews sour style meetings have been such train wrecks, AND we are extremely fortunate to have some world-renowned local sour brewers. I really don't understand why this is such an offensive concept.
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